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     Re: anyone out there

Ok - Now I feel prompted to throw my $0.02's worth in
here, and I feel like I represent _alot_ of other people (users/
developers). I can certainly say I represent a few tens of 
thousands of users who were protected from inconvenience or
disaster because of NOCOL, just from my own experience.

Here is what I have wanted to say since Velocet first posted his
antagonistic message: This sound you hear on this mailing list is
the sound of a many years old software package which many people
are happy with. Honestly, what more could one want besides NOCOL?

I've been using it for 4 years and it has been very satisfactory.
So much so that as long as I've used it and made good use of it
I've only sent one other post to this list. I don't remember when
I signed up for the list, but I remember smiling happily when
at my first ISP NOCOL was displaying its status for all of our
servers on our little Sun IPC, and paging me when things went
wrong.  Worked just as well when I started working for large
ISP's - better than the very expensive commercial flavor of
the corporate day.

When I need/want to, I modify it - in C, perl, python, whatever - it
works fine. I like low traffic lists, and even more, I like software
that has worked out it's bugs and is stable. Seems as though there is
an entire consumer culture nowadays that just can't believe something
can be just fine _without_ being updated just for the hell of it.

Programmers need to get paid, and you'd expect the respectable
users out there to appreciate good FREE work when they run across
it. Saves alot of time and energy towards a particular end.

Velocet - go buy HPOV or NetCool (remember when they posted here taking
hints?), or Sun Net Manager, or whatever other marketechture suits your
"job". I wouldn't be surprised if you bought Big Brother if it cost
alot of $$. Those systems and NOCOL each have their place in the
universe, but don't mix hype with reality. There is what we sell people
and then there is basic serious business. Sad to think that the
sellee's are now on this list in utter misunderstanding.

Silence is indeed golden.

Thank you, Vikas.


> On Thu, Oct 14, 1999 at 09:25:58AM +0100, Peter Galbavy wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 14, 1999 at 02:42:03AM -0400, Vikas Aggarwal wrote:
> > It has been hard to dedicate time to development of nocol, and
> > contributions have been pretty few. I can work on enhancing this package
> > but I do need some dedicated time and support from others in the list
> > also.
> This is understandable, as someone who hasn't got enough time to do
> any of 20 different outstanding patches to various bits of software, I
> understand.
> > The current release has a lot of contributions from users in the field,
> > and that has helped NOCOL grow to its current stage (web interface, perl
> > interface, paging, etc.). If there is support from others on this list,
> > then I can coordinate enhancing the package and adding new features.
> This is the first "problem". Let me expand later.
> > If there are folks willing to take up some of the above responsibilities
> > and dedicate about a month's effort, I think we can roll out a new release 
> > with most of the above features by November end.
> > 
> > If you think you can take up a piece of this list above, then please send
> > email and I can _actively_ start working with you all on the next
> > release... but I _need_ your support to do this.
> I think that the problem with NOCOL, while trying very hard not to
> bring personalities into it, it that while open source, NOCOL is
> "closed". The catherdral and the bazaar all over again. The cathedral
> model (which I personally prefer for stable, solid code) only works if
> the architect is full time, like Apache, *BSD's etc. NOCOL, as you
> say, has not been getting the attention from you that it may get
> elsewhere, but while the development cycle is closed people will
> continue to make local hack or move on to other projects.
> NOCOL was great in its day, but other packages, in my personal view
> NetSaint, have jumped over NOCOL in leaps and bounds. I do not believe
> that my companies resources (yes, we actually have decided to put some
> real time into this) would be best served by trying to kick start
> NOCOL development back up, but rather by support a "live" project like
> NetSaint.
> Sorry for being so direct, I hope I have not offended.
> Regards,
> -- 
> Peter Galbavy
> Knowledge Matters Ltd
> http://www.knowledge.com/

Rick Robino                                  mailto:rrobino@wavedivision.com